Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

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Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by Barantir on Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:42 am

Hi guys, apologies if this is the wrong place to post this. I've just downloaded the game, and messed around a little.

When I move between vehicles in the safe provided, to gain a new center of gravity, so to speak, I either click on the controls or sit in a chair. That way my horizontal axis resets itself to the current plain I'm on. If I don't do this, looking from left to right becomes harder and harder, as the horizontal plain sort of curves to the original horizontal points (I'm assuming) The vertical axis is fine, just the horizontal one suffers the further away you get from the last reference point. like I said, the easiest way to fix this is to move to the closes chair or controls, and activate it. Perhaps a reset of the horizontal plain could be made, by pressing a keyboard shortcut, without having to sit down every time.

I was also wondering if it would be possible to jump out of creative mode in game, to let the character walk around, rather than fly. Though of course free movement is the best option when building, sometimes having your feet on the ground gives you a good perspective. Minecraft has the feature to be able to switch between the two modes, and I think it would be useful for this game as well.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but my game, after I clicked the save file, takes 3 minutes to start off, which feels a little long. Not complaining, just seems more than usual, as the game runs smooth through the rest of the process.

I'll be playing properly this weekend, but I thought I may as well start with a few things now.

Really love the look of the game, and the controls are pretty fun at the moment. Can't wait what you guys have in store Smile

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by Remitorm Darkwind on Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:50 am

theres no character model right now so its not that you in creative ode theirs just no player and I haven had this issue might try to replicate it
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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by tsunamayo on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:08 am

Yes right now to align yourself there is two ways :
1) Use a chair
2) Use artificial gravity inside the ship.

Now there is a couple of thing I can do for that :
1) I will add a specific block to align yourself : so you can place it outside you ship, near any entrance for example. It will look like an handle. you will just need to activate it, or maybe step inside and it will do it automatically I havent decide.
2) When I work more on the inventory I will add piece of equipment to do many thing. One such piece will be eva suit, with this you will be able to control yourself in all angle basically.

Other than that :
If you want to walk you need to activate gravitation unit. I can show it in another post if you want, but it is simple you put the block, then activate it (you can link a button/slider to it also if you want)

Regarding loading time, this is the thing I want to monitor with tester, thanks for bringing in. I will do a separate thread as this will be an ongoing topic !

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by Barantir on Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:40 pm

Great ideas!

Happy to help Smile

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by johnreverse on Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:10 pm

The sooner we get the "roll" option outside piloting a spaceship the better. It's kinda tedious to navigate without it. Good example to look at is Space Engineers spacesuit flight model(including inertia implementation).

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by tsunamayo on Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:45 pm

johnreverse wrote:The sooner we get the "roll" option outside piloting a spaceship the better. It's kinda tedious to navigate without it. Good example to look at is Space Engineers spacesuit flight model(including inertia implementation).
Ok is there anything specific I should know about SE spacesuit ? To integrate it into gameplay without multiplying the number of commands I wanted to use a single key to hold that would transform up/down to pitch axis and left/right to roll.
In survival you would need a EVA suit to use it. Depending on what item you equiped this key will map to different actions.
I will work on this for the next update then, and I will add this axis realign block that should be easy to do !

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by johnreverse on Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:11 pm

There are mainly two specific things that differentiate your system from SE. In SE you can use Q/E keys to roll your character(pitch is bound to mouse Y axis and yaw is bound to X axis) and also there is a button that allows you to keep speed at which you are currently going in the global frame of reference(so when exiting your spaceship going at 100m/s you don't get flung into space but you keep floating at 100m/s near the ship) or decelerate to 0m/s in the global frame of reference. I'm not sure if this control scheme is doable in your project or is even consistent with your vision but it seems to me that it's the best option for that type of game.

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by tsunamayo on Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:29 pm

I see, thanks for the details.
For mapping pitch to mouse Y axis I am not a big fan it would mean that you constantly desalign your self with the entity you are flying in.
Maybe you can help me on that : I was having the impression that these was only needing when transferring from one build to one other, only to align re-yourself to new build, but maybe I am wrong I did not played SE but I am glad to have some player sharing me their experience. Some time ago I had a realign key but I scraped it.
Also for the speed when exiting the spaceship yes this is something I need to fix, it is more a game design integration issue rather than a technical one. So for example in SE what happen to the player when is he not travelling at 100ms/s but at 100 000 km/s (or any high speed you get the idea).
Also if you happen to get lost in space after exiting your ship at high speed you can just press F7 to respawn to it (you have to put a teleportation block first)

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by johnreverse on Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:17 pm

1. You could bypass the misalignment problem with having two different modes, one would be "the SE" mode and one would be "SkyW mode"(the one that's used currently) and if you encounter gravity field or sit in the chair you switch from "SE mode" to "SkyW" mode.
2. Those keys gave you the ability to assume whatever orientation/frame of reference you want without need for "orientation blocks". They gave you full 6DoF which is really important in those type of games imho. What currently is implemented gives you 4.5DoF - up/down, left/right, forward/backward, yaw and half of the pitch(correct me if I'm using DoF term wrong but nevertheless you get what I'm trying to convey) Without these it would be painfully tedious to play SE.
3. SE has a universal speed limit at ~107m/s(for gameplay/technical reasons I presume). I'm not sure how you are doing this in terms of actual code/methods but I would say nothing should happen to the player as long as the spaceship's speed is constant(I think there should be "hold current speed" button if there isn't one already), on the other hand while warping the player who exists the spaceship could just be flung into the middle of nowhere or just get killed.


Last edited by johnreverse on Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by tsunamayo on Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:40 pm

Thanks for that interesting discussion !
1) So in fact I already have two mode, I will add the new degree of freedom only for the free mode (the other one being relative mode for when there is gravity - but that is just how I call them in code)
2) for now I have 4 dof : up/down + forward/backward + left/right + yaw. With the new system you hold one key (typically SHIFT) and you will access the last two remaining roll and pitch with up/down/left/right key. You will tell me if as a SE player you get use to it, but if I dont let you misalign yourself every time you move the mouse up or down (which is doing SE if I understand correctly because of pitch setting) you should not need to use roll and pitch too often. Anyway let s just test this solution that why we have the testing phase for ! Smile
3) Yeah with a speed limit it is simplier to handle I guess. At the end I might just kill the player and say it was because of the hyperdrive propulsion system ...

Regarding the hold current speed you are talking about the speed of the spaceship ? I am not sure to get this one. In Skywanderers your speed will be constant if don't apply any thrust.

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by johnreverse on Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:33 pm

2. I'm pretty sure I can get used to it but I still think SE system is way more intuitive and makes your character way easier to control although from the description it might sound like the opposite. Check out this video to see what I'm talking about, but keep in mind that this guy has a quite high FOV and while playing you don't even think for a second about doing the adjustments(at least in my case). h-ttps://w-ww.yo-utube.com/watch?v=Inp3d_CkxhE (remove "-"s because "new members are not allowed to post external links/email for 7 days")
3. It is but without a warp drive getting out of the planet takes forever Very Happy

Regarding you regarding my speed comment I don't seem to be able to get the velocity display working on my build(probably my fault, will report back if not) so I quickly glanced your videos in which you fly and I made wrong conclusions about what the "velocity slider" on the hud represents Smile

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by tsunamayo on Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:46 pm

Ok cool I just watched the video a bit (I will look at the options so newcomer can post lol), and this is what I was thinking : you constantly misalign yourself because of the mouse-Y = pitch setting. The two cube are aligned so you should not have to constantly re-align yourself.
Now I understand why thecrazydemoman was saying he had motion sickness in SE and such. http://skywanderers.forumjap.com/t34-allo-thecrazydemoman-here
Now dont worry I am just a stuborn human being, but if the system I have in mind is not working well I will scrap it no problem. But seing SE I see a system where you constantly mess your alignment everytime you move the mouse. Anyway this is a very informative discussion for me now I see how it is done in other game. By the way if you want to test it right now I can do a quick build just for you so you tell me your feeling with this system ! I will just map it to hold SHIFT.

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by johnreverse on Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:51 pm

Yeah, I totally see why it might be nauseating to some people. I would happily test the proposed system so send away! Maybe it will turn out to be 100x better than SE system Wink

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by tsunamayo on Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:15 pm

Ok it is interesting it will take more time that I expected, mainly because in first person you have no idea on how is oriented your body. In third person you can align easily. So I will have to add some rules so that your head align to your body ect. Just a question are the head moving in SE when you are in 6dof mode ?

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by johnreverse on Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:21 pm

No. It only moves when you are pitching up/down and the gravity is on. Anything other and you are moving your body not the head. You have freelook toggle under alt and if you stop holding it down it recenters the camera(played this game since the day it entered EA and haven't used it once unless you count sitting in a chair or piloting, there it's useful).

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by sunwupen on Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:52 pm

Since there is no "up" or "down" in space, this is a pretty important issue to tackle. As mention before, in Space Engineers you do constantly mess with your alignment when moving the mouse, but to fix that they put a very smooth rotation control for your character. I think there should be a sort of "align to entity" button that would align you to whatever the game thinks is "up" on the ship or station you're looking at. However, I also think you should have the option to "decouple" from this alignment with a button press as well. It would be very simple if both align and decouple are set to the same key so you can toggle between the two. As someone who suffers from mild cases motion sickness, I hope some from of smooth reorientation of your camera will be implemented in the future.

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Re: Shortkey that resets the cameras horizontal/vertical axis

Post by tsunamayo on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:02 am

Ok in the upcoming build I implemented a small feature to deal with realignment without the need of any button : just press against the surface of the ship you want to realign. Let test this for a little bit and see if it is acceptable.

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